Here, have a cigar
Third Party Accounts
The President's Testimony
If you came to this page, but have never been to the index, use these links to see more Crazy Shit!
More Crazy Shit - Old No Frames Version
(i) Wednesday, November 15, 1995
Ms. Lewinsky testified that she had her first sexual contact with the President on the evening of Wednesday, November 15, 1995, while she was an intern at the White House. Two times that evening, the President invited Ms. Lewinsky to meet him near the Oval Office.(15) On the first occasion, the President took Ms. Lewinsky back into the Oval Office study, and they kissed.(16) On the second, she performed oral sex on the President in the hallway outside the Oval Office study.(17) During this encounter, the President directly touched and kissed Ms. Lewinsky's bare breasts.(18) In addition, the President put his hand down Ms. Lewinsky's pants and directly stimulated her genitalia (acts clearly within the definition of "sexual relations" used at the Jones deposition).(19)
(ii) Friday, November 17, 1995
Ms. Lewinsky testified that she met with the President again two days later, on Friday, November 17, 1995.(20) During that encounter, Ms. Lewinsky stated, she performed oral sex on the President in the private bathroom outside the Oval Office study.(21) The President initiated the oral sex by unzipping his pants and exposing his genitals. Ms. Lewinsky understood the President's actions to be a sign that he wanted her to perform oral sex on him.(22) During this encounter, the President also fondled Ms. Lewinsky's bare breasts with his hands and kissed her breasts.(23)
(iii) Sunday, December 31, 1995
Ms. Lewinsky testified that she met with the President on New Year's Eve, Sunday, December 31, 1995, after the President invited her to the Oval Office.(24) Once there, the President lifted Ms. Lewinsky's sweater, fondled her bare breasts with his hands, and kissed her breasts. She stated that she performed oral sex on the President in the hallway outside the Oval Office study.(25)
(iv) Sunday, January 7, 1996
Monica Lewinsky testified that she performed oral sex on the President in the bathroom outside the Oval Office study during the late afternoon on Sunday, January 7, 1996.(26) The President arranged this encounter by calling Ms. Lewinsky at home and inviting her to visit.(27) On that occasion, the President and Ms. Lewinsky went into the bathroom, where he fondled her bare breasts with his hands and mouth. During this encounter, the President stated that he wanted to perform oral sex on Ms. Lewinsky, but she stopped him for a physical reason.(28)
(v) Sunday, January 21, 1996
Ms. Lewinsky testified that she and the President had a sexual encounter on the afternoon of Sunday, January 21, 1996, after he invited her to the Oval Office.(29) The President lifted Ms. Lewinsky's top and fondled her bare breasts.(30) The President unzipped his pants and exposed his genitals, and she performed oral sex on him in the hallway outside the Oval Office study.(31)
(vi) Sunday, February 4, 1996
Ms. Lewinsky testified that she and the President had sexual contact in the Oval Office study and in the adjacent hallway on the afternoon of Sunday, February 4, 1996.(32) That day, the President had called Ms. Lewinsky.(33) During their encounter, the President partially removed Ms. Lewinsky's dress and bra and touched her bare breasts with his mouth and hands. He also directly touched her genitalia.(34) Ms. Lewinsky performed oral sex on the President.(35)
(vii) Sunday, March 31, 1996
Ms. Lewinsky testified that she and the President had sexual contact in the hallway outside the Oval Office study during the late afternoon of Sunday, March 31, 1996.(36) The President arranged this encounter by calling Ms. Lewinsky and inviting her to the Oval Office. During this encounter, Ms. Lewinsky did not perform oral sex on the President. The President fondled Ms. Lewinsky's bare breasts with his hands and mouth and fondled her genitalia directly by pulling her underwear out of the way. In addition, the President inserted a cigar into Ms. Lewinsky's vagina.(37)
Top of page
(viii) Sunday, April 7, 1996
Ms. Lewinsky testified that she and the President had sexual contact on Easter Sunday, April 7, 1996, in the hallway outside the Oval Office study and in the study itself.(38) On that occasion, the President touched Ms. Lewinsky's breasts, both through her clothing and directly. After the President unzipped his pants, Ms. Lewinsky also performed oral sex on him.(39)
This was their last in-person sexual encounter for over nine months.
(ix) Friday, February 28, 1997
Ms. Lewinsky testified that her next sexual encounter with the President occurred on Friday, February 28, 1997, in the early evening.(40) The President initiated this encounter by having his secretary Betty Currie call Ms. Lewinsky to invite her to the White House for a radio address. After the address, Ms. Lewinsky and the President kissed by the bathroom. The President unbuttoned her dress and fondled her breasts, first with her bra on and then directly. He touched her genitalia through her clothes, but not directly, on this occasion. Ms. Lewinsky performed oral sex on him.(41) On this day, Ms. Lewinsky was wearing a blue dress that forensic tests have conclusively shown was stained with the President's semen.(42)
(x) Saturday, March 29, 1997
Ms. Lewinsky testified that she and the President had sexual contact on the afternoon of March 29, 1997, in the Oval Office study.(43) On that occasion, the President unbuttoned Ms. Lewinsky's blouse and touched her breasts through her bra, but not directly. He also put his hands inside Ms. Lewinsky's pants and stimulated her genitalia.(44) Ms. Lewinsky performed oral sex on him, and they also had brief, direct genital-to-genital contact.(45)
(xi) Two Subsequent Meetings
Ms. Lewinsky testified that she met with President Clinton in the Oval Office study on the morning of Saturday, August 16, 1997. They kissed, and Ms. Lewinsky touched the President's genitals through his clothing, but he rebuffed her efforts to perform oral sex. No other sexual acts occurred during this encounter.(46)
On Sunday, December 28, 1997, three weeks before the President's civil deposition in the Jones case, the President and Ms. Lewinsky met in the Oval Office. In addition to discussing a number of issues that are analyzed below, they engaged in "passionate" kissing -- she said, "I don't call it a brief kiss." No other sexual contact occurred.(47)
3. Phone Sex
Ms. Lewinsky testified that she and the President engaged in "phone sex" approximately fifteen times. The President initiated each phone sex encounter by telephoning Ms. Lewinsky.(48)
Third Party Statements
Top of Page
5. Testimony of Ms. Lewinsky's
Friends, Family Members, and Counselors
During her relationship with the President, Monica Lewinsky spoke contemporaneously to several friends, family members, and counselors about the relationship. Their testimony corroborates many of the details of the sexual activity provided by Ms. Lewinsky to the OIC.
(i) Catherine Allday Davis
Catherine Allday Davis, a college friend of Monica Lewinsky's,(53) testified that Ms. Lewinsky told her in late 1995 or early 1996 about Ms. Lewinsky's sexual relationship with the President.(54) According to Ms. Davis, Ms. Lewinsky told her that the relationship included mutual kissing and hugging, as well as oral sex performed by Ms. Lewinsky on the President. She also stated that the President touched Monica "on her breasts and on her vagina."(55) Ms. Davis also described the cigar incident discussed above.(56) Ms. Davis added that Monica said that she had "phone sex" with the President five to ten times in 1996 or 1997.(57)
(ii) Neysa Erbland
Neysa Erbland, a high school friend of Ms. Lewinsky's,(58) testified that Ms. Lewinsky told her in 1995 that she was having an affair with President Clinton.(59) According to Ms. Erbland, Ms. Lewinsky said that the sexual relationship began when Ms. Lewinsky was an intern.(60) Ms. Lewinsky told Ms. Erbland that the sexual contact included oral sex, kissing, and fondling.(61) On occasion, as Ms. Erbland described it, the President put his face in Ms. Lewinsky's bare chest.(62) Ms. Erbland also said that Ms. Lewinsky described the cigar incident discussed above.(63) Ms. Erbland also understood from Ms. Lewinsky that she and the President engaged in phone sex, normally after midnight.(64)
(iii) Natalie Rose Ungvari
Ms. Lewinsky told another high school friend, Natalie Rose Ungvari,(65) of her sexual relationship with the President. Ms. Lewinsky first informed Ms. Ungvari of the sexual relationship on November 23, 1995. Ms. Ungvari specifically remembers the date because it was her birthday.(66) Ms. Ungvari recalled that Ms. Lewinsky said that she performed oral sex on the President and that he fondled her breasts.(67) Ms. Lewinsky told Ms. Ungvari that the President sometimes telephoned Ms. Lewinsky late at night and would ask her to engage in phone sex.(68)
(iv) Ashley Raines
Ashley Raines, a friend of Ms. Lewinsky who worked in the White House Office of Policy Development Operations,(69) testified that Ms. Lewinsky described the sexual relationship with the President. Ms. Raines testified that Ms. Lewinsky told her that the relationship began around the time of the government furlough in late 1995.(70) Ms. Raines understood that the President and Ms. Lewinsky engaged in kissing and oral sex, usually in the President's study.(71) Ms. Lewinsky also told Ms. Raines that she and the President had engaged in phone sex on several occasions.(72)
(v) Andrew Bleiler
In late 1995, Monica Lewinsky told Andrew Bleiler, a former boyfriend, that she was having an affair with a high official at the White House.(73) According to Mr. Bleiler, Ms. Lewinsky said that the relationship did not include sexual intercourse, but did include oral sex. She also told Mr. Bleiler about the cigar incident discussed above, and sexual activity in which the man touched Ms. Lewinsky's genitals and caused her to have an orgasm.(74)
(vi) Dr. Irene Kassorla
Dr. Irene Kassorla counseled Ms. Lewinsky from 1992 through 1997.(75) Ms. Lewinsky told her of the sexual relationship with the President. Ms. Lewinsky said she performed oral sex on the President in a room adjacent to the Oval Office, that the President touched Ms. Lewinsky causing her to have orgasms, and that they engaged in fondling and touching of one another.(76) The President was in charge of scheduling their sexual encounters and "became Lewinsky's life."(77)
(vii) Linda Tripp
When she worked at the Pentagon, Ms. Lewinsky told a co-worker, Linda Tripp, that she had a sexual relationship with President Clinton.(78) Ms. Tripp stated that Ms. Lewinsky first told her about the relationship in September or October 1996. Ms. Lewinsky told Ms. Tripp that the first sexual encounter with the President had occurred on November 15, 1995, when Ms. Lewinsky performed oral sex on him. Ms. Lewinsky told Ms. Tripp that, during the course of this sexual relationship, she performed oral sex on the President, the President fondled Ms. Lewinsky's breasts, the President touched Ms. Lewinsky's genitalia, and they engaged in phone sex.(79)
(viii) Debra Finerman
Ms. Lewinsky's aunt, Debra Finerman, testified that Monica told her about her sexual relationship with President Clinton.(80) Ms. Finerman testified that Ms. Lewinsky described a particular sexual encounter with the President.(81) Ms. Finerman otherwise did not ask and was not told the specifics of the sexual activity between the President and Ms. Lewinsky.(82)
(ix) Dale Young
Dale Young, a family friend, testified that Ms. Lewinsky told her that she had engaged in oral sex with President Clinton.(83)
(x) Kathleen Estep
Kathleen Estep, a counselor for Ms. Lewinsky,(84) met with Ms. Lewinsky on three occasions in November 1996.(85) Based on her limited interaction with Ms. Lewinsky, Ms. Estep stated that she considered Ms. Lewinsky to be credible.(86) During their second session, Ms. Lewinsky told Ms. Estep about her sexual relationship with President Clinton.(87) Ms. Lewinsky told Ms. Estep that the physical part of the relationship involved kissing, Ms. Lewinsky performing oral sex on the President, and the President fondling her breasts.(88)
The detailed testimony of Ms. Lewinsky, her corroborating prior consistent statements to her friends, family members, and counselors, and the evidence of the President's semen on Ms. Lewinsky's dress establish that Ms. Lewinsky and the President engaged in substantial sexual activity between November 15, 1995, and December 28, 1997.(89)
The President's Testimony
Top of Page
B. The President's Grand Jury Testimony
The President was largely aware of that extensive body of evidence before he testified to the grand jury on August 17, 1998. Not only did the President know that Ms. Lewinsky had reached an immunity agreement with this Office in exchange for her truthful testimony, but the President knew from public reports and his own knowledge that his semen might be on one of Ms. Lewinsky's dresses. The OIC had asked him for a blood sample on August 3, 1998 (two weeks before his grand jury testimony) and assured his counsel that there was a substantial predicate for the request, which reasonably implied that there was semen on the dress.
As a result, the President had three apparent choices in his testimony to the grand jury. First, the President could adhere to his previous testimony in his civil case, as well as in his public statements, and deny any sexual relationship. But he knew (or at least, had reason to know) that the contrary evidence was overwhelming, particularly if his semen were in fact on Ms. Lewinsky's dress. Second, the President could admit a sexual relationship, which would cause him also to simultaneously admit that he lied under oath in the Jones case. Third, the President could invoke his Fifth Amendment privilege against compelled self-incrimination.
Confronting those three options, the President attempted to avoid them altogether. The President admitted to an "inappropriate intimate" relationship, but he maintained that he had not committed perjury in the Jones case when he denied having a sexual relationship, sexual affair, or sexual relations with her.(103) The President contended that he had believed his various statements in the Jones case to be legally accurate.(104) He also testified that the inappropriate relationship began not in November 1995 when Ms. Lewinsky was an intern, as Ms. Lewinsky and other witnesses have testified, but in 1996.
During his grand jury testimony, the President was asked whether Monica Lewinsky performed oral sex on him and, if so, whether he had committed perjury in his civil deposition by denying a sexual relationship, sexual affair, or sexual relations with her. The President refused to say whether he had oral sex. Instead, the President said (i) that the undefined terms "sexual affair," "sexual relationship," and "sexual relations" necessarily require sexual intercourse, (ii) that he had not engaged in intercourse with Ms. Lewinsky, and (iii) that he therefore had not committed perjury in denying a sexual relationship, sexual affair, or sexual relations.(105)
A more specific definition of "sexual relations" had also been used at the civil deposition. As to that definition, the President said to the grand jury that he does not and did not believe oral sex was covered.
Q: [I]s oral sex performed on you within that definition as
you understood it, the definition in the Jones --
A: As I understood it, it was not; no.(106)
The President thus contended that he had not committed perjury on that question in the Jones deposition -- even assuming that Monica Lewinsky performed oral sex on him.
There still was the question of his contact with Ms. Lewinsky's breasts and genitalia, which the President conceded would fall within the Jones definition of sexual relations. The President denied that he had engaged in such activity and said, in effect, that Monica Lewinsky was lying:
Q: The question is, if Monica Lewinsky says that while you
were in the Oval Office area you touched her breasts would she by
A: That is not my recollection. My recollection is that
I did not have sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky and I'm
staying on my former statement about that. . . .
My, my statement is that I did not have sexual relations as
defined by that.
Q: If she says that you kissed her breasts, would she be
A: I'm going to revert to my former statement [that is, the
prepared statement denying "sexual relations"].
Q: Okay. If Monica Lewinsky says that while you were in the
Oval Office area you touched her genitalia, would she be lying?
And that calls for a yes, no, or reverting to your former
A: I will revert to my former statement on that.(107)
The President elaborated that he considered kissing or touching breasts or genitalia during sexual activity to be covered by the Jones definition, but he denied that he had ever engaged in such conduct with Ms. Lewinsky:
Q: So touching, in your view then and now -- the person being
deposed touching or kissing the breast of another person would
fall within the definition?
A: That's correct, sir.
Q: And you testified that you didn't have sexual relations
with Monica Lewinsky in the Jones deposition, under that
A: That's correct, sir.
Q: If the person being deposed touched the genitalia of
another person, would that be -- and with the intent to arouse
the sexual desire, arouse or gratify, as defined in definition
(1), would that be, under your understanding then and now --
A: Yes, sir.
Q: -- sexual relations.
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Yes it would?
A: Yes it would. If you had a direct contact with any of these
places in the body, if you had direct contact with intent to
arouse or gratify, that would fall within the definition.
Q: So you didn't do any of those three things --
A: You --
Q: -- with Monica Lewinsky.
A: You are free to infer that my testimony is that I did
not have sexual relations, as I understood this term to be
Q: Including touching her breast, kissing her breast,
touching her genitalia?
A: That's correct.(108)
In the foregoing testimony to the grand jury, the President lied under oath three times.
1. The President testified that he believed oral sex was not covered by any of the terms and definitions for sexual activity used at the Jones deposition. That testimony is not credible: At the Jones deposition, the President could not have believed that he was telling "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" in denying a sexual relationship, sexual relations, or a sexual affair with Monica Lewinsky.
2. In all events, even putting aside his definitional defense, the President made a second false statement to the grand jury. The President's grand jury testimony contradicts Ms. Lewinsky's grand jury testimony on the question whether the President touched Ms. Lewinsky's breasts or genitalia during their sexual activity. There can be no contention that one of them has a lack of memory or is mistaken. On this issue, either Monica Lewinsky lied to the grand jury, or President Clinton lied to the grand jury. Under any rational view of the evidence, the President lied to the grand jury.
First, Ms. Lewinsky's testimony about these encounters is detailed and specific. She described with precision nine incidents of sexual activity in which the President touched and kissed her breasts and four incidents involving contacts with her genitalia.
Second, Ms. Lewinsky has stated repeatedly that she does not want to hurt the President by her testimony.(109) Thus, if she had exaggerated in her many prior statements, she presumably would have said as much, rather than adhering to those statements. She has confirmed those details, however, even though it clearly has been painful for her to testify to the details of her relationship with the President.
Third, the testimony of many of her friends, family members, and counselors corroborate her testimony in important detail. Many testified that Ms. Lewinsky had told them that the President had touched her breasts and genitalia during sexual activity. These statements were made well before the President's grand jury testimony rendered these precise details important. Ms. Lewinsky had no motive to lie to these individuals (and obviously not to counselors). Indeed, she pointed out to many of them that she was upset that sexual intercourse had not occurred, an unlikely admission if she were exaggerating the sexual aspects of their relationship.
Fourth, a computer file obtained from Ms. Lewinsky's home computer contained a draft letter that referred in one place to their sexual relationship. The draft explicitly refers to "watching your mouth on my breast" and implicitly refers to direct contact with Ms. Lewinsky's genitalia.(110) This draft letter further corroborates Ms. Lewinsky's testimony and indicates that the President's grand jury testimony is false.
Fifth, as noted above, the President's "hands-off" scenario -- in which he would have received oral sex on nine occasions from Ms. Lewinsky but never made direct contact with Ms. Lewinsky's breasts or genitalia -- is implausible. As Ms. Lewinsky herself testified, it suggests that she and the President had some kind of "service contract -- that all I did was perform oral sex on him and that that's all this relationship was."(111) But as the above descriptions and the Narrative explain, the nature of the relationship, including the sexual relationship, was far more than that.
Sixth, in the grand jury, the President had a motive to lie by denying he had fondled Ms. Lewinsky in intimate ways. The President clearly sought to deny any acts that would show that he committed perjury in his civil case (implying that the President understood how seriously the public and the courts would view perjury in a civil case). To do that, the President had to deny touching Ms. Lewinsky's breasts or genitalia -- no matter how implausible his testimony to that effect might be.
Seventh, the President refused to answer specific questions before the grand jury about what activity he did engage in (as opposed to what activity he did not engage in) -- even though at the Jones deposition only seven months before, his attorney stated that he was willing to answer specific questions when there was a sufficient factual predicate.(112) The President's failure in the grand jury to answer specific follow-up questions suggests that he could not supply responses in a consistent or credible manner.
3. Finally, the President made a third false statement to the grand jury about his sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky. He contended that the intimate contact did not begin until 1996. Ms. Lewinsky has testified that it began November 15, 1995, during the government shutdown -- testimony corroborated by statements she made to friends at the time.(113) A White House photograph of the evening shows the President and Ms. Lewinsky eating pizza.(114) White House records show that Ms. Lewinsky did not depart the White House until 12:18 a.m. and show that the President was in the Oval Office area until 12:35 a.m.(115)
Ms. Lewinsky was still an intern when she says the President began receiving oral sex from her, whereas she was a full-time employee by the time that the President admits they began an "inappropriate intimate" relationship. The motive for the President to make a false statement about the date on which the sexual relationship started appears to have been that the President was unwilling to admit sexual activity with a young 22-year-old White House intern in the Oval Office area. Indeed, Ms. Lewinsky testified that, at that first encounter, the President tugged at her intern pass. He said that "this" may be a problem; Ms. Lewinsky interpreted that statement to reflect his awareness that there would be a problem with her obtaining access to the West Wing.(116)
If you came to this page, but have never been to the index, use these links to see more Crazy Shit!
More Crazy Shit - Old No Frames Version